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Logia types seem overpowered. Excluding the fact that they are practically invincible to anyone who is not a Haki user (if they can reflexively turn into their element), they have many more advantages:

  1. Think about how outrageously powerful some of the Logia types could be if they were creative. Almost every other strong character in One Piece (Devil Fruit user or not) is strong because they were either creative as hell, had sheer strength and technique (Zoro), are Haki users with some sort of fighting ability or a combination of all three (of which Luffy is a perfect example). My point is, they all had to be creative or strong and skillful, with Haki to boot (sometimes). Let's be honest, most of the Logia types are so powerful because of their Fruits, I am not denying that their own, personal skill didn't attribute to some of their strength, but let's be real; you've got people like Enel, Kizara, Sakazuki and Ace. Pre-timeskip Ussop would be a formidable opponent with any of these Devil Fruits. It takes a lot of Logia types no physical training, and very little creativity to be a dangerous person to face. If these guys had creativity and didn't completely rely on their Devil Fruits' sheer power, very few people in the OP universe could beat them. Sakazuki could make his opponent's entire stepping ground a field of lava, he could simply make lava "minions" like mannequins made out of lava that could smash into his opponents. I'm sure there are more things he can do, I just made that off the top of my head. Anyways, there seems to be so much they could potentially do, that could wreck their opponent, but they are too comfortable in their abilities to even fathom needing more variety to beat someone.

  2. A Logia can produce limitless amount of their element, this screams overpowered. Someone as formidable as Hawkeye Mihawk could be rendered useless to Ace if he simply chose to send an island-sized fire ball, after all Logias can produce an endless amount of their element. Even if Hawkeye is very fast, Ace could simply use the fire ball if he neared him or if he moved out of sight, and nuke the entire area with it. I doubt even Hawkeye is fast enough to get out of the destruction the attack would cause. Or take another hypothetical situation, Enel verses Shanks. Shanks is one of the strongest characters in One Piece, but if Enel uses his supercharged mantra plus his ability to travel at the speed of sound, he would own Shanks within moments.

  3. This is a bit of a combo of my two points above, if they can control and manipulate their element in any fashion and use it limitlessly, couldn't they just create a repetitively powerful attack? Okay, some of them would need time for these attacks, but what about the extremely powerful ones that don't? Enel can easily send 200,000 volts into someone. I realize this won't immobilize some of the heavy hitters, but it would slow them the fuck down after he hit them with it for a second time. Kizara could just lock someone in a light cage and shrink it until they combusted inside, Ace could lock someone in a fire sphere and shrink, I am going off on what I read on Logias, that they can manipulate their element in any way, so they don't have to touch it to control it. Why hasn't anyone done this?

I would bring up other situations that a Logia could have dominated in a split second if they had simply thought of said tactic, but that would take too long. I know some Logia types are more restricted verses others, and don't follow the exact definition, but still most aren't. Logia types could easily destroy islands and kill strong people in moments, it is ridiculous considering Paramecia types and Zoans being on-par with them, some but not many. If we follow the Logia's definition, Logias should be dominating everyone, only challenged by other Logia types. It is the only way (that I know of) in which a weakling or complete idiot can become one of the most dangerous people in OP, maybe the idiot would die, but think about how easily he could decimate a town. And the weakling is worse, they could strategize with power and beat the shit out of anything. I know even the extremely powerful Logias can easily lose, but a lot of that is up to circumstance and they still have a better chance at winning unless they are fresh newbies.

Seriously, everyone else has to work their ass off to just compete with Logias, and they use almost non of the creative end of their powers and just rely on its sheer destructive nature, and I think Oda knows this. Oda probably knows almost no Logia uses their abilities to its fullest, not even a tenth of its potential, and is still extremely strong. It might be a long running joke.

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    Are you asking a question, or are you writing an answer? If you are writing an answer, would you please self-answer the question and move the "answer" part in your question to the answer? – nhahtdh Apr 5 '15 at 8:52
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    Welcome to Anime & Manga! Please note that we are not a forum! We're a Question and Answer site. You posted this as a question, but it doesn't look like a question. If you want, you can ask a question and answer it on your own (yes, that's acceptable). What you should do for this post: Post an answer containing all of the relevant information you wanted to share, then edit the question to only include a question that goes with that answer. As it currently stands, your question is likely to be put on hold soon. – Madara Uchiha Apr 5 '15 at 9:00
  • Yeah, I'm finally starting to get that, sorry. – Hellion Cazzy Apr 5 '15 at 10:36
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I disagree with your idea that they're overpowered, but I do agree that they're very powerful. Remember, One Piece is not a game, it's a story, and there's no need for balance, so if there were a few characters who were unbeatably strong, they're not necessarily over powered, just unbeatable. I don't think logia users are unbeatable at all though.

It's repeatedly stated and shown that Logia are the rarest and most powerful devil fruit. Smoker, Aokiji, Crocodile and Kizaru all effortlessly crushed Luffy the first time they met, while simply ignoring his attacks. If you took a random villager from anywhere in One Piece, almost certainly the best way to give them a lot of power very quickly is by feeding them a logia fruit. Coby's transformation took everyone by surprise, but if he had skipped all the hard training and missed his growth spurt and just eaten a logia, other than lucking out with elemental weaknesses, Luffy, the Strawhats and everyone else on Water 7 would have been powerless against him.

Most logias also come with amazing offensive capabilities, as well as almost complete invulnerability to anything other than haki and maybe an elemental weakness. In particular, Enel and the Admirals have very destructive fruits, that aren't complicated or hard to use.

However, they aren't as invincible as you make them out to be. I disagree with both of your examples, I think Mihawk would defeat Ace and Shanks would defeat Enel. I don't think logias work quite how you think, rather than controlling the element, the logia becomes the element, and can then fire it off sometimes. I don't think any character has been shown to control their element after it's left their body, so I don't think Ace or Kizaru can do the kind of attacks you say they can.

But even if they could, again it's not that simple. If Ace hits you with a fireball, your burnt but there's no guarantee that you're defeated. Many One Piece characters are very tough, and some have such good haki and reflexes that they're almost impossible to hit. Ace tried to kill Whitebeard many times and never left a scratch on him. If Ace were to hit Mihawk with a big Fireball, and Mihawk ran through the fire and gave him a haki-imbued slash, I suspect Ace would be in much worse condition.

In theory logias can produce an infinite amout of their element, but not necessarily all at once. I doubt Ace could flip out and burn a whole island/the world on a whim, in the same way Law claims that having a room up for too long exhausts him, I suspect logias work the same way. Enel wanted to destroy Skypiea, but rather than just point his finger and blast it away, he had to use his maxim to do complicated things with storm clouds.

And for your final point, Enel and Kizaru can travel at very high speeds, probably much faster than any character relying on their legs to travel like Shanks or Mihawk. But they can't necessarily think and react at those speeds, if Enel turns to lightning and shoots over to hit you, but you predict it with your haki and dodge, I don't think he could change course and hit you. As well, the transition from human to light/lightning form is not instantaneous, with Kizaru having repeatedly been stopped once he started trying to beam himself somewhere.

So in answer to your question, I think yes, logia fruits are very powerful, but no they aren't everything. You can't just eat a logia and wait around to be made a yonko/admiral.

  • That helped, I wasn't completely grasping how far a logia could go in manipulation and quantity with their element. I have another question about logias, so maybe you'll be able to answer when I make it. – Hellion Cazzy Apr 6 '15 at 2:52
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You are correct, devil fruit users are inherently overpowered over regular humans and within the devil fruit powers their is indeed a power ranking, with Logia users being on top in most cases, unless they fight their natural enemy (Luffy vs Enel). So in a world where not much experienced or strong fighters are available, like East Blue, every devil fruit user will become a ruler and would seem like the most bad-ass person around (Eg: Buggy).

Considering Logia users, I don't understand how you didn't mention Smoker. Smoker is the only Logia user we have seen that completely relied on sheer devil fruit powers. Pre-timeskip he lacked in every other field of combat. Enel and Ace had physical power and creativeness, while the government admirals had Haki to boot.

So, while I completely agree with you in the four Blues or on Sky islands, I completely disagree with you on this in the New World. In the New World, having Logia powers means nothing. First of all, your examples are not consistent with your statement and basically answer your own question. You say that Logia powers are overpowered regardless of training, which is not true. Considering your example of Ace vs Hawkeye. Ace will never be able to throw a fireball that big, just by eating the fire fruit. He would have to train first to make this happen. He would need to train his power and speed. If he doesn't create the ball fast enough, Hawkeye would just cut Ace in two in no time. Also, even if Ace would have been able to conjure such a fireball, Hawkeye would just cut the ball to pieces and move on. Remember how Fujitora threw a meteor on Law and Doflamingo? They just cut it, like it was nothing. So unless you are well trained, you will not survive the new world, regardless of what powers you might have.

  • Okay, thanks I am not completely grasping how far a logia can go. But thew definition says that they can create a limitless amount of their element, they never said that you needed training. But logias still do not need to train nearly as much to reach effective standards of power. And as for the manipulation aspect, if they can control their element without actually being in contact with it, they should be having a field day on others. And the amount of creativity in a logias attack is fodder in comparison to a peremica, or non DF user. It's usally blasts or some sort of blade. – Hellion Cazzy Apr 5 '15 at 10:43
  • they could do a lot more with the powers given to them – Hellion Cazzy Apr 5 '15 at 10:43
  • But i understand what you mean, there are lots of tactics around logia types and even they are weak if they are against an expierenced person who can deal with DF users. I just wish the anime how far the general logia could go, cause it seems like they have a well of dangerous power that can be manipulated like no other DF users can do their own, yet it is not nearly as capatilized on like paramecias and zoans do. A case of taking advantage of the badassery that be a logia devil fruits capabilities. – Hellion Cazzy Apr 5 '15 at 10:49
  • @HellionCazzy You should see the Marineford Arc again, the destructiveness of logia powers is shown pretty well during that arc. – Peter Raeves Apr 5 '15 at 12:36
  • But if they can manipulate their element how ever they please (meaning with or without it being in physical contact) and have limitless power to produce more of said element, they could do so much. Couldn't they mold things out ofthere element and force there opponent to doge everything that said mold sends at them? It seems as if a Logia type does not even have to move to fight, they could do a Gara type thing and have a shell of there element around to guard offf haki users attacks other logia attacks. – Hellion Cazzy Apr 5 '15 at 17:58
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Yes, at first it looks like it's overpower and we think nothing can stop him. But remember, how powerful a devil fruit's power can be is based on how powerful the person who ate it is.

You may think Luffy's powers are great because he is rubber so you can punch anyone as hard as you can without worrying you will hurt your arms, but remember he cant even beat Sabo or Ace at first, simply because two of them are stronger than he is.

Another example is when Smoker easily caught Luffy in Logue Town or in the Marineford War arc, which is because he too is stronger than Luffy. But in the Punk Hazard Arc, Smoker loses twice when he fights Law and Vergo, because he is far weaker than Law who has the Paramecia power and Vergo who hasn't eaten any devil fruit.

I know there are some characters who relied on his devil fruit so much like Enel and Caribou, but according to Pekoms, anyone that thinks they're superior just because they eat logia fruit can't survive on New World.

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First and foremost, the Logia devil fruits are not the rarest anymore. The Mythical Zoan are. (Only two mythical Zoan confirmed, Marco's Devil fruit and Sengoku's Hito Hito no Mi: Model Daibutsu, versus 11 Logia Devil Fruits confirmed).

Second, there's a reason why Oda added Haki and Rokushiki. Everybody can learn Busoshoku and Kenbushoku Haki to the point that all Vice-Admirals can use both Colors, and any person that trains hard can learn Rokushiki (a good amount of Vice-Admirals complement their fighting styles with Rokushiki techniques, hell even Coby can use Soru and Rankyaku).

A Logia devil fruit user has to train a lot in order to properly harness his power (remember that Luffy had a lot of problems with controlling his body after he ate the Gomu Gomu no Mi) and to reflexively turn into the respective element (although Kenbushoku Haki may help in this regard), and then train and improve both his Busoshoku Haki in order to be able to defend against Haki users and his Kenbushoku in order to be able to predict incoming attacks. This takes a lot of training time. At the same time, a regular rank-and-file marine can train himself to become the next Garp in terms of raw power and strength of Haki.

Also, your statement holds true if we're talking about the Paradise part of the Grand Line, because in the New World, Haki is common knowledge. (Hell, even Haoshoku Haki is way more common in the New World than in Paradise: Dolflamingo, Don Chinjao, Big Mom and Charlotte Katakuri, all have it so far.)

So, in summary, Logia Devil Fruits' seemingly overpowered-ness is balanced by the common knowledge of Haki.

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