Goku got a skill making which even Gods struggle to master and even Vegeta managed to defeat God of Destruction Toppo in the tournament of power. Are they stronger than Lord Beerus?

  • Goku mastered Ultra Instinct, something Beerus can't fully use, it seems he is stronger than Beerus. Vegeta can't user Ultra Instinct at all, he seems weaker. Then again we can't assure until they fight
    – Pablo
    May 5, 2018 at 2:03

3 Answers 3


I can't give you a definite answer with regard to Goku, however with regard to Vegeta, the answer would be a No. These would be my reasons for the same:

First with regard to Vegeta:

  • Vegeta defeated Toppo who was a Candidate to be a God of destruction.
  • Toppo was implied to be weaker than Vermouth(The God of destruction of Universe 11), considering Jiren was recognized as the mortal who surpassed the Gods.
  • Jiren's official description indicated he was God of destruction tier and Whis himself stated that Jiren was at the level of a God of destruction.
  • Vegeta in his Super Saiyan Blue Evolution form, was completely overwhelmed by Jiren even while fighting alongside SSSJB + Kaioken*20 Goku and Android 17.
  • Jiren didn't show any signs of exhaustion, wasn't battle damaged and didn't sustain any injuries during their battle.

Based on Manga Chapter 28, Beerus was indicated to be one of the strongest Gods across the multiverse. I think it is fair to assume his strength is relative to Base Jiren (Who has been confirmed in the Manga to be stronger than Vermouth and also vaguely in the anime by Whis in Episode 110. Hence, I can conclude without a doubt based on this evidence that Vegeta isn't stronger than Beerus.

With Regard to Goku (Note: Episode 131, made it clear that Goku couldn't utilise his Mastered Ultra Instinct Transformation through will. Hence, I will be assuming that he's able to tap into it, either through will or being overwhelmed by Beerus like Jiren.):

  • There was this magazine Link at the Time of Episode 129 here where Beerus states that Goku might be stronger than him in Episode 129. However, I do not think this is the case.
  • When Goku utilises Ultra Instinct Omen, we see him being able to hold his own against Jiren but was still significantly weaker than Jiren based on their fight in Episode 129.
  • Once Goku mastered UI, he was completely able to overwhelm Jiren(Whose power is God of Destruction Tier).
  • We know this Jiren is stronger than Vermouth. In the God of destruction tournament chapter in the manga, he alongside Beerus and Quitella were the last 3 standing.
  • Whis in the anime implied Vermouth was stronger than Beerus before the tournament of power, to which Beerus responded that it was only an arm wrestling match. However, this was shown to be Quitella in the manga.
  • Since we cannot really gauge Beerus's power with Vermouth, I think its fair to classify them as God of destruction tier and conclude that Beerus's power is very relative to Vermouth(Not significantly stronger or weaker).
  • This would make Beerus relative to base Jiren who was completely overwhelmed by Mastered UI Goku.

Hence, I think it is fair to conclude that Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and Limit Breaker Jiren surpassed God of destruction tier. So I think it is fair to assume that Goku in his fully Mastered Ultra Instinct State is indeed stronger than Beerus.


Before the tournament of power, in the opening match/prematch, when Goku went Blue, other gods noted; "power that rival that of gods!" (and no deity declined the statement)

At his Ultra Instinct (not the complete one), even Beerus states that he is probably stronger than him and is implied in many cases during the final moments of the show anyways. After completing the form, Goku is far beyond g.o.d. level. All these are known, Jiren was significantly stronger in comparison to g.o.d. level, he is probably closer to angel level and that was before his final power-up. After that, both Goku and Jiren are surely on par and highly possibly even much beyond mere angels and possibly just below or around grand priest level (obviously this is the reason Goku can't attain that power that easily anyways, it is that much ultra-extreme by any aspect).

P.S. I will never understand the obsession of mortals not surpassing g.o.d.s/gods, in part they have surpassed them already (matter of the fact from BBZ, as see next per example-reminder), Goku even at his pre-ToP (Tournament of Power) base is ridiculously stronger to any Kai (even from Z, which are gods) and Supreme Kai etc. In fact, by the end of the ToP, Goku (yet again at his base) even manages to hold the fully powered Jiren with his energy as a shield. to rewrite this; in his base!

(I think this sums it up/sums all of the above mentioned quite effectively actually, and no, none can say or speculate that Jiren was doing him a favor not eliminating them, it was a matter of survival, obviously the scenario of Jiren becoming ultra humanitarian even over his own life + universe is not just absurd, it's plain stupid. Goku is now a being of immeasurable power even formless a.k.a base).

  • I think it's an absurd statement to say Goku and Jiren are remotely even a fraction close to the power of an angel. Whis was capable of one shotting Beerus, a high tier god of destruction. Whis has Ultra Instinct mastered down for over 1000s of years and skills such as the ability to bring people back from the death, time manipulation etc. Jiren was stated to be God of Destruction tier(Before he unlocked his dormant power to rival MUI Goku). Also note: Jiren was extremely exhausted in Episode 131 and so was Goku, Frieza and Android 17. It came down to a battle of will power. Aug 5, 2018 at 18:59

I think since vegeta is strong enough to give jiren a few good hits but no real damage. Even after hit how is Probaly blue level was barely able to freeze him. I feel if this was vegeta he done this too he could hold on to the end. Ans since beerus is a God of destruction a one of if not the strongest couldn't get trapped in hit's time cage to the end.Goku on the other hand has UI omen which was still to weak to defeat jiren.After though goku was able to tap into MUI and even the grand priest (second strongest in the multiverse after grand Zeno and future grand zeno) wanted to train goku to get better with his MUI skill.However,in the Moro manga Vegeta was stated to have a power even stronger than gok us MUI.Vegeta also clapped Moro before he abobsored his two hen man than vegeta even goku was able to hold up on Moro when he absorbed vegeta and etc but since vegeta was stated to be stronger than goku MUI in Moro arc. Because of this I think goku is stronger than beerus and vegeta is a tie.

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