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When revived by Orochimaru, the First and Second were sent to fight the Third, however, we know today that:

The First beat one of the most powerful ninjas in history (me), could heal himself without activating any special jutsu, could summon a freaking chakra sucking tree dragon.

Moreover!

The Second had known (invented!!) Edo Tensei (meaning he could have broken free of Orochimaru's control), he also knew space-time ninjutsu.

With those abilities, plus immortality, they couldn't have possibly lost against the Third at their full power.

So in that case, why didn't they use their full power against the Third? Their emotions should have been completely erased, and made into a strict killing machine, and nothing more.

  • 2
    Are you sure this isn't just a plothole? – Arturia Pendragon Dec 15 '12 at 15:53
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    Perhaps Kishi still hadn't thought very much about all of Edo Tensei's possibilities. – JNat Dec 15 '12 at 16:00
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    Do you really belief that the third would survive me one Minute? Not to mention that Nidaime was with me. – Hashirama Senju Dec 15 '12 at 16:30
  • What episode is it? Or it is still only in manga? – Johnny_D May 8 '14 at 21:00
7

In the later part of the manga, the Second Hokage (Nidaime) thanked Orochimaru for making his jutsu more perfect because they were revived at their peak powers.
During the first time, Orochimaru's Edo Tensei was not perfect, due to which Sarutobi was able to seal them inside the Shinigami's belly.

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  • And what episode it was when hokage were ressurected first time? – Johnny_D May 8 '14 at 21:01
  • @Johnny_D it's episode 71 in the anime (the original, non-shippuden version), or chapters 118 and 119 in the manga – user2813274 Nov 9 '14 at 14:45
7

Revived or not, they're still not the real deal. The Third was not fighting against the real Shodai and Nidaime. That would have been perhaps a completely different fight.

Besides, the fact that Orochimaru's Edo Tensei might not have been that perfect and powerful (perhaps less perfect than Kabuto's), makes me (and not just me) think he used it for the sentimental effect it would have had on the Third, i.e. fighting against your predecessors, rather than actual relying on their (weakened) power only.

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    Only when Madara was revived, he was fully powered, and even more than that – Madara's Ghost Dec 15 '12 at 16:07
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    @MadaraUchiha You were revived by someone else, though, weren't you? I've seen around the theory according to which Orochimaru weakened them on purpose to control them better. The one who revived you was much stronger. – Alenanno Dec 15 '12 at 16:09
  • @Alenanno: In terms of raw strength I don't think Kabuto is much stronger if he is stronger than Orochimaru, but Kabuto did mention that he had perfected Edo Tensei. But it's interesting how Kabuto could "value-add" on Madara... – Arturia Pendragon Dec 15 '12 at 16:34
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    @ArturiaPendragon Yes, I meant it that way. Kabuto would lose in a 1on1 fight against Orochimaru in open terrain. When they were preparing Konoha's attack, I remember Kabuto's face was terrified. Nevertheless, even if Orochimaru has great knowledge, Kabuto is really really really expert in things like "intellectual jutsu", if you get what I mean. After all, he was the one who cured and took care of Orochimaru in not-normal situations. You need to be skilled for that. – Alenanno Dec 15 '12 at 16:42
3

I think they didn't fight at their full powers because Orochimaru controlled them.

Other than Kabuto, who lets the ninjas fight themselves (more or less).

Because he really controls them, they can't fight better than Orochimaru allowed them to do.

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    I don't think he explicitly controlled them. He let them fight, only they were mindless. Orochimaru can't use Wood element or Water element, he relied on them to do it for him. – Madara's Ghost Dec 15 '12 at 16:02
  • @MadaraUchiha: Other then Kabuto, Orochimaru suppresses the personality of the victims. They still can use their abilities, but they're dumb shells. – looper Dec 15 '12 at 16:05
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    @looper: The first and second still conversed with the third and apologized for having to fight him, so their personalities were not suppressed. – Arturia Pendragon Dec 15 '12 at 16:18
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    @ArturiaPendragon: You should read chapter 118 and 119: In 118, they apologize, in chapter 119, their souls are suppressed (the moment when Orochimaru puts his kunai in their head). – looper Dec 15 '12 at 16:24
1

It's actually because the author (Kishimoto) did not plan out the entire story at that point. They used to describe the Third as the strongest Hokage, but this all changed when we got to Shippuuden. Don't bother trying to explain it within the Naruto universe - it's simply an inconsistency in the story, even if Kishimoto writes in some details to patch this error up later on. It's not a knock on the Naruto series though, as this show has been going on for over a decade.

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0

I can think of two (2) theories about that:

  1. They could've kept some "free will" to avoid using full force against a friendly, even though they were being controlled into. Perhaps their strength was enough to counter Orochimaru's control somewhat (but not enough to properly "release" themselves from his control). You see that, when summoned, one of the first things they did was "ask for forgiveness" from Sarutobi, because they had to fight.

  2. It might be linked to the "sacrificial bodies" Orochimaru used to summon them: By law of conservation, the "package" cannot be forced to contain something that goes beyond their capacity, and thus limited the strength of First and Second. It was not a hard limit (the ninjas used were far inferior), but Orochimaru might be using THEIR full strength (but still be constraining First and Second's strength altogether).

Suspension of Disbelief aside, it might be the reason "why" they fought below their grade. That, or Sarutobi could manage both of them at once, but that's even more farfetched.

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    Well, by the law of conservation, infinite chakra is impossible. And yet, Edo Tensei'd ninja do not get tired, nor do they ever run out of chakra. – Madara's Ghost Feb 28 '13 at 21:08
  • Do they? For it to last "forever", they must be involved in an "non-stopping fight", and since dead people cannot feel pain, they might just be using all the chakra of the body, squeezing the muscles and bones out, until there is no more drop of it and, eventually, fall down, not because they are tired, but just because they cannot get any more chakra from the body (and begin "draining" the summoner instead). It might take a lot of time, but perhaps if the fight drew longer, it could've happened. – Ricardo Segovia Feb 28 '13 at 21:12
  • I'm not sure about how well versed you are in the Manga. But Madara did things which were beyond human scale, a lot of things, and he wasn't even breathing hard. Also, based on latest episodes, it seems as though the jutsu itself has something to do with it (As the Second stated that the technique was improved from last time, and that this time they were resurrected at nearly full power) – Madara's Ghost Feb 28 '13 at 21:15
  • Well, we are not measuring things within the "human" scale, but rather a more lax one, but i can see your point about it, it might be more related to the technique (and therefore, the user's chakra) than the old body's. – Ricardo Segovia Mar 1 '13 at 11:33
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Towards the end of the manga, when Orochimaru summons all four dead Hokage with Edo Tensei after releasing their souls from the Death Reaper's stomach, it is stated that the first time around, all those years ago, when Orochimaru attacked the Hidden Leaf Village (Konohagakure) and failed, Orochimaru had purposely summoned the first and second Hokage without their full power, knowing full well that if he did so, he would not be able to control them.

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-1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muriFb2rmeU

Infinite chakra needs to be put into context ... Like the first and second Hokage had infinite chakra when they fought the third Hokage but still lost and the reason for that was simple .

Having an infinite amount of chakra does not mean necessarily having an ability to raise your chakra levels indefinitely as in going from a particular energy capacity to raising it infinitely but like a battery which has a set power capacity being able to recharge or maintain that set power or chakra capacity to full indefinitely (my same argument on superman as he is dependent on the suns power and since the suns output and life span including the amount of suns that exist are limited therefore his power to become stronger and stronger coincides with that limit like a rechargeable battery with a limited recharger)

SO AN EDO-TENSEI CHAKRA DOES NOT GO ABOVE ITS NATURAL LEVEL FROM WHEN THE PERSON WAS ALIVE (UNLESS CHAKRA CAPACITY WAS IMPROVED BY CASTER) BUT RATHER REGENERATES THE SAME WAY A DAMAGE BODY DOES WHICH MEANS BECOMING A ZOMBIE SIMPLY PUTS YOU INTO A CONSTANT STAGNANT STATE OF FIXED EXISTENCE SO IF YOU'RE A LEVEL 9 THEN YOU CONSTANTLY REGENERATE AND RECUPERATE BACK TO LEVEL 9 REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR OPPONENT DOES TO YOU OR HOW MUCH CHAKRA YOU USE UP PER JUTSU .

THE PROBLEM IS WHETHER MADARA WAS RESURRECTED AT FULL STRENGTH BECAUSE IT SEEMED AS IF HE WAS AND IMPROVED TO BOOT AND EVEN IF HE WAS NOT , DOES HE HAVE JUTSUS WHICH REQUIRE GREATER CHAKRA CAPACITY LEVELS THAN HIS EDO BODY AND IS THAT REALLY BETTER THAN HAVING THE ABILITY TO RECHARGE HIS CHAKRA AND USE KAMIKAZE MANEUVERS ?

From what I remember the first and second Hokage are only at 70% of their power in ZOMBIE form currently. while I do suspect it may be a good trade off for the second Hokage as his techniques seem to be based on talent for execution rather than power level, the first is like Gaara and Kisame in that their abilities become bigger and more powerful like a DBZ character by just using higher amounts of chakra pumped into it although you would think they can just add more and more chakra to an already executed jutsu as time goes on but whatever .

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