We already know that Madara had fought Hashirama at the Valley of the End, and got some of his power.

How did we get from that to the fact that he has his face on his shoulder? Is this Orochimaru/Kabuto's doing? Or is that a natural thing that somehow occurred?

  • 5
    You must be knowing the answer,you are madara :P Commented Dec 19, 2013 at 1:09

4 Answers 4


Orochimaru helped Madara get that face as well as develop the Rinnegan. This is partially why Madara activated the Rinnegan so late in his life; Orochimaru was the brain in the operation. As you can see, Orochimaru knew a lot of secrets, including Danzou's condition and Tobi's true identity.

There are small hints as the manga progresses all leading up to this point. Madara doesn't explicitly state it (in the below picture), but we know it is Orochimaru based on his research, Kishimoto's hints throughout the manga, and the fact Madara never met Kabuto before this war.

The underling is Obito and the acquaintance is Orochimaru (Ch. 657). enter image description here

UPDATE: Here is the proof that Madara didn't know Kabuto. In the last 2 panels of the above pic, it is pretty much implied that Madara met a person (while he was alive) that showed him how to use his current technique. That person can only be Orochimaru.


  • 1
    Once again, Kishi lays golden eggs in Naruto. The very specific facts that are revealed about Orochimaru seem negligible at first, but then becomes important later on.
    – krikara
    Commented Dec 19, 2013 at 3:19
  • Take a bow! You beat everyone there .. Commented Feb 18, 2014 at 10:21
  • 2
    @krikara lemme put this question to you....... let us beleive for a while that Orochimaru was the person who is referred here...... but then why would Oruchimaru be so obsessed with Sasuke's eyes........ why couldn't he go behind Madara's eyes directly.......i am not trying to contradict with your statement but I do feel that rather than wasting his time to retrieve Sasuke's eyes,he could have straight away gone for Madara's eyes..... he could have atlease tried searching him....and even if he knew the secret of rinnegan,he won't be lying silent....as we all know Oruchimaru always seeked power
    – Jiraiya
    Commented Feb 18, 2014 at 17:55
  • 1
    I think rather focussing on orochimaru,it can even be Nidaime who is being referred here.......it's just my speculation though
    – Jiraiya
    Commented Feb 18, 2014 at 18:01
  • 1
    It can't be Nidaime because Nidaime hated Madara with the utmost passion. That one is certainly out of the question. The reason why Orochimaru couldn't steal Madara's eyes is because Madara was simply too strong (with Obito and Zetsu). Then Madara gave his eyes to Pain, the leader of Akatsuki. Now who would Orochimaru want to get the eyes from? Madara's group, Akatsuki, or Sasuke? The choice is an easy one to make.
    – krikara
    Commented Feb 19, 2014 at 1:22

enter image description here

Here he meant,

  1. An acquaintance of an underling of mine

    • Kabuto (acquaintance of underling, Tobi)
  2. Others who mulled over similar idea

    • Orochimaru (experimented over Danzou)

Kabuto was the one who resurrected Madara. He could have managed to fuse and modify Madara's body as per his will and wish (just a theory). And Madara didn't die having Hashirama's face on his chest, which means this power was gained only after he was revived.

Kabuto while fighting with Itachi and Sasuke did indeed show his skills of fusing different persons' cells in himself. That makes us believe that he might have played around with Madara's corpse before he summoned him.

But the phrase I learnt said by Madara makes us think that, may be the Kabuto's craft work was imperfect and something that Madara composed later during the battle.

But all the above statements are just theories and vaguely supported by evidence. Kishi is one tricky guy :)


I would assume it could be Orochimaru, because these experiments were definitely done while Madara was still alive. Madara was kept alive up til old age because the Gedo Mazou was supporting him, and at that time his Rinnegan was already implanted in Nagato, so that must mean he had the Senju cells before his death in order to get those eyes. Orochimaru is alive at the time that Obito was saved by Madara, and this was around the time he began to conduct his expirements. I wouldn't say he saved Madara during his fight with Hashirama but he definitely fits the part where Madara said he was taught that by an acquaintance of an underling; Orochimaru was a part of Akatsuki and obviously acquainted with Obito, and I'm pretty sure Orochimaru would keep all his intel on the low from everyone, being alive before Madaras death I bet he wouldn't tell obito that much of his past expirements

  • could you please provide snapshots from the manga and/or the anime. That would make your answer stronger.
    – debal
    Commented Apr 2, 2014 at 8:02
  • question asked by madara and answered by hashirama :P Shouldn't it be reverse? :P Commented Apr 3, 2014 at 4:48

The underling is Obito and the acquaintance is kabuto, the two were working together during the fourth shinobi war, when Kabuto ressurected madara he told him that he had brought him back better than his glory days, in other words, during his fight with hashirama in which he took hashirama's flesh and implanted it into himself, but he didn't obtain the power until he was at a very old age, what Kabuto did was take the power the madara got from hashirama's cells in his old age and implant them into a younger version of madara, making Kabuto the one responsible for the current madara having hashirama's power

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .